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» Wishful Thinking OOC
So here we are. Icon_minitimeMon Feb 01, 2016 9:07 am by Ink

» Star Wars RP Profiles
So here we are. Icon_minitimeTue Dec 29, 2015 8:42 pm by EonArashi

» Vangelon RP's (WT, DC, MC)
So here we are. Icon_minitimeMon Dec 28, 2015 12:10 pm by Ink

» "The Kingdom of Laril" Discussion area
So here we are. Icon_minitimeThu Oct 01, 2015 10:38 pm by Raven

» Ink's Portfolio
So here we are. Icon_minitimeTue Sep 29, 2015 1:17 am by Ink

» Wishful Thinking: Sun Voyage
So here we are. Icon_minitimeSat Sep 26, 2015 11:10 pm by Ink

» So here we are.
So here we are. Icon_minitimeTue Sep 15, 2015 11:38 pm by Ink

» The Kingdom of Laril
So here we are. Icon_minitimeSat Aug 22, 2015 1:53 am by Raven

» Just because
So here we are. Icon_minitimeTue Jul 28, 2015 1:20 pm by Raven


 So here we are.

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Posts : 228
Join date : 2014-02-02
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PostSubject: So here we are.   So here we are. Icon_minitimeSat Sep 12, 2015 5:17 pm

Very well. Accusations abound, it seems. I will prevent myself, to the best of my ability, from becoming... unpleasant.

I've apologized already. Twice, now. I have, in fact, made an effort to make amends. Perhaps it seemed insincere. But such is my nature. I'm not the sort to get down on hand and knee for this sort of thing. Am not the sort to beg and plead, nor the kind that repeats "I am so terribly sorry. I'm sorry. Please forgive me," as it falls over and over upon the deaf ears of those who have already made their minds. It isn't something I'm able to do. If I do, you should assume I'm being insincere. As backwards as it may sound.  You wanted my apology. You put a time limit on it. Given these conditions, I did so to the best of my ability. I was as sincere as I possess the capability to be. And here it is once again:

My apologies. My apologies for any trouble I have caused. And I am well aware I have caused my share. And, in the order you no doubt would prefer it, I apologize. This song is likely entirely relevant, but in case it isn't, here you have my responses and admissions for whatever good it may do.

You claim I don't care. You claim I am egocentrically driven. To this I say... you are half correct. I am, in fact, a creature with an ego. As are we all. I am driven, sometimes more strongly than others, by a drive to have that ego inflated. And occasionally I can be overly enthusiastic regarding it. This is something I never hide. I've always been perfectly open about this and have made it perfectly clear that said ego isn't inherently bad. I use it as a motivator. However, I acknowledge that it can be problematic when my enthusiasm gets the better of me.

However, your claims that I do not care are only partially true. You claim I don't participate in conversations that have nothing to do with my characters. A communicational error. Seldom do I speak with any but Eon. You don't get to see many of these conversations. Conversations about Pokemon. About Smash Bros. About superheroes. Cartoons. And so-on. But more than that, you forget the conversations I've had with you. Ones that refer to the inherent problems with the educational system of America. The ones revolving around the social issues faced by Cat. Why do I not offer you advice, Cat, when you crawl into the chat after a long day, venting your frustrations? Because it is not my place. Not only am I not a teenage girl, I can only offer advice from personal experience. It's how advice works. And you have experienced life far differently than I have. A catholic upbringing, a far more social lifestyle, bullying AFTER elementary school, being a woman, having siblings. I can't relate. So I won't try to give you advice because I simply am not suited to it. But what of other conversations? Talks of anime and Fire Emblem and Sengoku, and all that rot? Simple. In those particular cases... no... I DON'T care. I'm not involved in Sengoku. I don't play Fire Emblem. And love anime though I may, I rarely - if ever - run into conversations on anime that I like. "Why don't you bring up ones you like?" Because you're on a roll and I don't want to interrupt. It's rude. And, frankly, if I don't care about the anime you're on about, why should you care about mine? THAT would be egocentric.

Yes. I enjoy talking about my own characters. Part of that is pride in the fact that it's something I've made. Part of it is a desire to improve them. But that is all beyond the point.

So. Let's move on from there.

Another interesting point. Never acknowledging that I'm wrong. I will acknowledge that I sometimes have this issue, but so do most, if not all people. I accept full fault, there. But please. Don't overblow the issue as if I absolutely never admit to wrongdoing.

Acceptance of criticism... I'm not sure was aimed at me or not, but... I never snapped at anyone who criticized me. I may have defended myself in some manner but never was it venomous. At least not intentionally. Perhaps I padded with humor that was in poor taste. If that was the case, then my apologies. But I also never asked for any criticism from Ali or anyone. And when given criticism, my response was, more often than not, to fix or ignore it. As it should be. The notion of criticism does not imply that I am obligated to act on it. And an opinion, while everyone is entitled to it, can be wrong. It's called an uninformed opinion. Regardless, if I did respond in poor taste to any criticism that I'm not remembering, I meant no harm. My apologies, also, to Ali for the barrages of defaming statements made at her expense.

As for something that I don't believe I recall actually being mentioned, but was brought to my attention by Eon, apparently it ruffles feathers that my characters all come from some sort of outside story as opposed to being crafted for the RP, itself. This is a misconception. Both of the characters I created for BNW, which, granted, has yet to start, were created solely for it. The characters of Game are the only ones that come from elsewhere. And to the claim that I've only joined two RPs... I've also only effectively started two... it levels out. Again. Communication.

That is my response to everything that's been brought to my attention that somehow led to this unfortunate outcome. Do with it as you will. But understand that I am in no way being insincere when I say:

My apologies.

Last edited by Ink on Sat Sep 12, 2015 8:23 pm; edited 2 times in total
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Vir Honestus
Vir Honestus

Posts : 72
Join date : 2014-02-02
Age : 24
Location : In the Commons

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PostSubject: Re: So here we are.   So here we are. Icon_minitimeSat Sep 12, 2015 8:19 pm

And so I shall pass on the message.

Cursed be the ground for our sake. Both thorns and thistles it shall bring forth for us. For out of the ground we were taken, for the dust we are... and to the dust we shall return
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Join date : 2015-09-12

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PostSubject: Re: So here we are.   So here we are. Icon_minitimeSat Sep 12, 2015 10:53 pm


Allow me to explain.

We asked for an apology, not a begging one, but a polite sincere one. Nobody said anything about begging.
And then we wanted you to speak about the things that were upsetting people. You totally avoided the issue and dumped it back on us. It was rude, impolite, and I thought I was being direct and polite enough.

Also, stop personally attacking me. This isn't about our personal quarrels, but about how we feel about your actions as a whole. But I'll talk about how I feel about you personally.

You often say things to try to set me off, like a time-bomb. You know this. I know I have a short temper AND THIS POST REFLECTS THAT CLEARLY, but don't think others don't notice either.

I hate Wishful Thinking - it's your entire life. You're every breath, every move. Get over yourself already. Nobody cares about what you're going to do - get the damn thing published and become a millionaire and spite me. I really won't give a fuck because I ain't dumping one dime into your franchise or story or comics. You have the resources to learn and go do this, so shut up and do it. Stop talking about hiring an artist, draw the god damn thing yourself - you have enough time to learn to draw manga and put it together. Stop short-changing yourself. YOu're better than that, and if you continue to say you can't do it, you're right! Absolutely god damn right. But why not actually learning to do something for your dream and make friends who may be interested in the same shit? Oh because you're an antisocial nobody who thinks they can get no where without anyone. Well you know what, we need friggin people in this world.
verdict of those who did not follow this was decided by 3 people, not one. I already mentioned you didn't have to care about our "hype fests" in an earlier post. We never asked you to beg. We gave you a choice.

As for my RP claim, I think it holds true. You made a character, but I read the archives afterwards one of them was a test character for something. I don't appreciate that. I don't have "test" subjects in my roleplays of characters forthe roleplays. And don't even get me started on fucking trapper - you elevate her int he posts, she's obviously a hacker and will have some sort of power we "didnt see coming," if somebody hacked your favorite game or was banned from it she wouldn't have one fucking ounce of respect. None. Nobody likes cheaters or spammers. People can live without it.

Don't think you can plead your way back into this one. This is partly for your own good.

With all the time you waste and waste on roleplay websites, it's no wonder you have no social life. Go out and smell the roses. Go make some new friends. Get a job. Write a book. Or maybe learn something new, like how to play an instrument or knit or skateboard or play tennis or something! Get a girlfriend. Get a LIFE! Instead of whining about why some "teenage girl" (ahem, I am an adult) you don't even know in real life nor care about, go make something of yourself.

You're just a name on the internet, and I am the same to you. Grow a backbone and stop getting mad over what "little fiesty girls" think.
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PostSubject: Re: So here we are.   So here we are. Icon_minitimeSun Sep 13, 2015 12:39 am

Heheh. Cute. You think I'm angry with you. Far from it. I'm not angry at you. I'm laughing at you, you comically ill-adjusted kitty, you. What an amusingly incoherent tantrum of almost entirely unfounded and conclusion-jumping babble. Truly one of the most remarkably, hilariously incomprehensible implosions I've seen in a long time. My, but you are a delusional one. Oh, internet, you bring me so much amusement. I especially love how it falls apart at the end with that lovely drivel about my having no semblance of a life. Projecting, much? It sounds quite personal. Adorable. Ah, but I needn't bother defending myself, further. The knowledge that I'm right is good enough. And you certainly don't need me to tell you you're wrong. Your conscience will tell you that on its own, months - maybe years - from now. But I digress. It's therapeutic getting to actually be purposely antagonistic for a change. Thank you so very much for the outlet. Tah, little kitten. Have a nice life.

Sigh. Oh well. I tried. No skin off my nose. Thanks for relaying it, anyway, Vir. Though I was more writing it for myself than for the kitten. I appreciate the notion. Regardless, if it's all the same to you, I'll just hang around here. Nice place to speak to those who'll show the sense of reason to actually bother communicating with me. Maybe post a few stories.

Last edited by Ink on Mon Sep 14, 2015 10:09 am; edited 1 time in total
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Join date : 2014-02-02
Age : 24
Location : I am in the forest walking around...

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PostSubject: Re: So here we are.   So here we are. Icon_minitimeSun Sep 13, 2015 11:33 am

I really don't want to bother but I will anyway.

You're responses are exactly why my first response was what it was, as I don't see any actual change. I still don't, and I won't bother trying to horribly phrase exactly what I mean. But that is where that short pm came from.

Either way,

Points on your things.

Refusal on giving advice, you don't need to be in the same position as the person to give advice, yes it helps to properly understand the actual frustration of the person, but advice is meant to bring in a different perspective on the situation that the person had not previously seen. You are more than qualified on that. If anything, you'd lack the ways of properly communicating the advice's point to the subject.

You really do have a criticism issue when it comes from those not being a professor of yours. Not accepting it has nothing to do with lashing out in anger. Or how you defend your work. It's being able to shut up when someone is talking about your piece, and understanding what they mean without the emotional connection that comes with doing anything creative. This is an issue most people have until later in life, myself included. It's the equivalent of working on a painting for hours, blind to its perfections, and only noticing them when you, yourself, look at the painting through a mirror across the room, or by turning it a different orientation. The only way this is different for you is because you generally don't show emotion, so it needs a slight modification to be fully understood.

And expanding that with Ali in mind: you claimed more than once she had an uniformed opinion. Only half true. She was uninformed in how she did not read through all your profiles and your multitude of other works. However, she gave you honest and straight forward views on how your works that she read were coming off. A main point was the profiles aren't made for the reader, they're made for you to keep track of your characters. So details you expect the reader to know wouldn't be available because they are not brought up at all in where the reader would actually go. It's the same reason authors rehash major details or re-explain characters in the beginning of books that are sequels in a story. You're reader should be able to understand it even if they haven't read anything else you made. Whether or not it's Book 1. As such, she was as informed as she needed to be.

In terms of actual grievances, sure I don't mind bringing them up again, but at this time I'm content with leaving it as it is. And because I'm sick of typing while having stuff to do. My only last point is while I don't agree with her responding in outburst, I actually agree with majority of Cat's points in her message above. Even in her childish moments, there are still some truth behind her words.

What do you see reflected in the mirror?
So here we are. Broken11
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PostSubject: Re: So here we are.   So here we are. Icon_minitimeSun Sep 13, 2015 1:31 pm


You, Raven, I have no quarrel with. None. If my initial PM to you was a bit... charged, it was because it was hastily made. A poor choice on my behalf, knowing myself. A PM written with the full intention of defending myself instead of understanding. For that I apologize. But rest assured, I have no problems with you. And you can at the very least express your issues without... that madness. Her I won't waste the energy on, anymore.

But if I must, then I'm more than conscionable of most of what you just said.

The point of advice remains that regardless of whether or not I am qualified to offer her any form of advice, which I really don't feel I am since she does lead and want to lead such a different life from my own, even if I were, the communication of anything I could say would be a roadblock. And, quite frankly... I'm not good at it. I never have been. My "advice" doesn't suit anyone who isn't as nonchalant as I am. And few are. I would love to be able to help, but that really isn't my forte. Perhaps this is a part of why I write, no? Being able to say things I normally wouldn't or wouldn't think to through the mouths of other characters? I could easily do that. But said character isn't me, either. It feels... dishonest.

You're quite correct. Of course I resist criticism. Everyone does. I never said I didn't. I defend things all the time. But I also do know that there is, in fact, a time to shut up. Maybe it's easier not to do so because... it's the internet. I didn't spend two years in a creative writing program, doing nothing but getting slammed with criticism by professors AND peers to not be able to take criticism. I'd have dropped out long ago. (Seriously. I had this one instructor. Yikes.) My only issue with criticism is with those who assume I'm obligated to act on it based on their remark, alone. If I seem defensive, it's likely just a matter of the internet projecting a barrier between personal interaction. Which does nothing to foster understanding. Although I have never exactly felt like that was really an effective way for critique to work, either. I always felt it should be more of a brief collaboration. But that's beside the point. Just my musings, I suppose. Since by now I can say whatever and it wouldn't matter at all.

And you're correct, again. I did say that Ali generally applies an uninformed opinion. The point of the character bios is also a good one. And setting aside my genuine apology to her for any and all defaming I participated in (which we again seem content to ignore), I still didn't ask for, nor did I respond venomously (as a certain someone did) to her criticism. I simply didn't respond to it. I would, however, point out that if the critic doesn't have all the details and they're aware of this (which she may not have been. I obviously have issues communicating details that seem clear to my own mind, as I've stated before) language and words are still a powerful thing. Without all of the details, it is still an uninformed opinion unless allowed the room for leeway. At no point do I recall during these "critiques" was that leeway provided. Word choices such as "He/She/It SEEMS like XYZ" rather than "He/She/It IS XYZ." But I'll handily admit. That's a pet peeve of my own. Not exactly something anyone has to conform to.

Now. On to the bear.

No. They don't hold true. Not all of it, anyway. It was a tantrum. I lent that it was only ALMOST entirely unfounded, but it was an explosion of mostly incomprehensible rage. Sweet, delicious rage. Allow ME to explain.

I gave you my apology. As you pointed out, I seldom show emotion. It is not a lack of caring. It's just one of the only two modes I possess. As you've no doubt seen in the previous comment (which was severely edited down as I didn't want to run the risk of having the girl hurt herself because of my words) I can be rather nasty. Without details that I really don't want to get into, I have my reasons for shutting down. But as my initial post stated, you shouldn't assume that just because it doesn't sound sincere, doesn't mean it isn't. And if that was how you lot interpreted it, then my apologies... again. But there's nothing I can do about that and it really matters not at this juncture.

Everything after that is where her whole rant fell to pieces. I did not "throw anything back on you." I acknowledge my fault, did not blame any of you for anything, chalking these issues up to poor communication on the side of ALL parties, and asked in what order you would like me to address the issues. You misinterpreted that... which proved my point entirely. Either I didn't communicate that point as clearly as I thought I did, or you were all too steamed to bother trying to receive the communication, yourselves. A matter that I do not fault any of you for.

Now. The part where it truly gets fun for me to read her responses.

First: I didn't personally attack her. I was responding simply to her post because it was the only one I had to work on before my account got shut off and I assumed she summarized everyone's grievances in it. And because the decision is ultimately hers so I aimed more of my note towards her. But, again, I wrote it more than myself than for her. I hadn't the slightest notion that it'd get me back on the site... and I really don't care at this point.

Prior to my previous post... no. I did not intentionally say anything to set her off. If I said anything to get her to explode, then that's her own misunderstanding of the intentions behind what I said. Now I won't pretend I'm not guilty of speaking about her "behind her back" when she clearly possessed the power to see it, but that's hardly something I am the only guilty party of and it wasn't just Eon, either. For those instances, as for the ones with Ali, I do feel rather unsettled and would apologize. But clearly that would be pointless at this juncture. Regardless, my apologies to her for that. But any statement made in her presence, said to "spite" her was simply an ill-considered statement that I should have been mindful of my company when making. I would submit that it isn't fair that I should have to tiptoe around her when no one does so for anyone else on the site, but clearly she requires a different touch that I should have been more mindful of.

And here's where she completely devolves into madness and, I'm sorry, I have no sympathy after this point.

1) If you hate it so much, why bring it up? I didn't.

2) No. Wishful Thinking is not my entire life. It, in fact, is just one of many of my projects. WRITING is my life. And Wishful Thinking, as well as the rest of Vangelon, is comprised of some of the best stories I've written. So yes. I'm a bit more proud of it than many other things. But I've also been working on it for a very long time. I should be allowed that luxury. If my enthusiasm got grating, then I apologize. However, her anger blinded her entirely to the true issue which wasn't "Wishful Thinking is my life" because if she'd paid enough attention to my presence at all, she WOULD have known that wasn't true. Yes. I talk about it a lot. And my apologies if it got annoying, but that's as much as I'm willing to give her on that front.

3) As for getting people to help me create it, she's basing this on statements from MONTHS ago, which I made while in a funk. In that time I actually HAVE acquired people to help me. In fact, I've had an artist helping me for over a year, now. And assuming I have the time to learn to draw, animate, and somehow voice act for over 20 people is ludicrous. I'm not apologizing because that entire tangent was just her getting pissy with me.

4) The conversational point. She ignored the entire first third of the point I made there. Completely ignored it. Just because a segment I made whilst trying to show some sympathy and compassion went misinterpreted by her pissy little mind and she decided she didn't like/want to hear it. Examples of conversations I've had at length that didn't involve me or my work... and she's participated in some of them. I vividly remember being involved in quite a few Pokemon conversations with her. There was that one night we all played Smash Bros. together. Her, Seek, Eon, and Me... and I think Swamp for a minute but he left because he was losing or something. I'm not apologizing for her oversight because it's just her wanting to be angry at me. So I'll let her be angry. Clearly it's therapeutic and she needs it.

5) You don't have "test subjects" in your RPs... and why, if I may ask, is that a bad thing? So Arier and Astrid, Ember, and Trapper come from something else. So? Their backgrounds are changed entirely. The only elements that remain the same are their powers and personalities. A story is made not by individual characters, but by the interactions BETWEEN characters. So why they're some sort of problem is well and truly beyond me. And again. I had to be TOLD this. By Eon. No one ever brought this up to me or even expressed any issue with it in some sideways, subtle manner.

6) Cat seems to misunderstand - ENTIRELY - that Trapper is a JOKE. She is literally a parody. And this I have no sympathy for because Eon sat there and explained to her what the trope was the defines her. No. It wasn't going to be some twist that she's a hacker (although she was, but that was just to hide her info). The twist was going to be that she did literally NOTHING to earn the reputation she has. After the story progressed a little bit, I was going to come up with some reason for the Tech Guild to have kicked her out and lower members of the guild weren't informed why so stories started revolving around her. And no one respects Trapper. The punchline is that they're afraid of her, despite her being one of the most approachable, friendly people alive. And it wasn't even gonna be  major story point or anything. I'm not going to apologize for that, either. Because it's her own fault if she jumped to a conclusion and got mad instead of asking me about her.

7) I wasn't pleading. I wrote the message because if it was therapeutic and if you bunch happened to see it, then so be it. I don't plead. The notion that I WOULD plead to go back somewhere where this is the type of crap that's allowed to pass is even more egocentric than me on my worst day. But that's what it was. A statement made from a bruised ego.

8 ) And this was just adorable. She assaulted me for having no life. Aha. Ahaha. No. Any implication that I didn't was a joke and she misunderstood because she has the sense of humor of a doorknob.

I have plenty of friends. I keep small circles of them, but I surround myself with wonderful, creative people who mean a great deal to me. Also: I have a job. One that I've spoken about on multiple occasions. I WORK on the internet. From home. I'm self employed and living quite comfortably, thank you. And I love it. Because it's one where I get to have a good time and share those good times with others. It's a key component of my character. I like seeing people enjoy themselves. It's why I like watching people like Markiplier. Dude's just having fun. What I do is in no way identical to what he does, but it's my own kind of fun. And if someone enjoys it, so much the better. I also attend college. And I'll be reattending next year for my masters. Neither of which afford me the time to get an actual physical job that involves me leaving the house. Some of you might be fine with it, but I'm self aware enough to know I wouldn't function well on that kind of schedule. Also, I'm learning every day and I think I'm plenty well-rounded. I know how to box, am learning to play the bass, already learned tennis, and I know how to make videos for the internet... I think I'm good. I'd love to have a girlfriend. Except that I'm not the kind of person who believes in actively going out to find one. Nor am I the sort who'd be comfortable doing that if he did believe in it. If it happens, it happens. But all of this folds into the greater issue... I have a life. Don't you dare assume that I don't. I don't "whine" except to be funny. The one whining here is the little kitten who has her head shoved too far up her rectum to see that any anger I do feel isn't towards her. That couldn't be further from the truth. I'm upset for her. Because she is SO poorly adjusted that if she doesn't get her crap together, the world's going to swallow her whole. I wanted, very much, to believe after that whole episode that created this site in the first place, she'd have done some growing. But I see I was wrong. And regrettably so. I have every hope that she evolves beyond it. Because she's right. She's a grown ass woman (though my reference to her age was literal. eighTEEN/nineTEEN, however old she is). But if she keeps up in the manner she just showed me, then she's well and truly screwed.

And if she gives me venom for it, then fine. I couldn't care less how she sees me. I am just a name on the internet, after all. One she felt the need to go out on a tear over and claim that a nuclear response was "for his own good." I digress. How thinly veiled that statement was is irrelevant. But I'm not letting her attack me for caring what happens to people and get away with it. That's where I draw my line. At this point I've all but excommunicated her. Doesn't mean I don't wish her to get better, as I would hope I can get better and pray anyone would help me achieve that. And thank god for my having such a wonderful support structure to help me with that. But with all she says about her own support structure, I don't imagine she has a very good one, bar you and maybe Seek. Certainly not her parents. And if I recall, her roommate is a nightmare. Regardless, I'm not dealing with her anymore.

If all that goes misinterpreted, then fine. I know what I meant. Perhaps it'll take more than one read through and a magnifying glass, but my meaning is in there. And if you just don't agree, then you just don't agree. Very well. If it's just unpleasant, then forgive me. But my hang-ups prevent me from saying any of that in any other way that would be palatable.

But I'm not defending myself from her. I'm defending myself to you, Raven. Because you're more reasonable than her. Compassionate. Far and away more patient than I. And I rather admire you in that regard. Whatever grievances you have with me... I'm sorry but I'd have to scroll through long dialogues with Eon to recall all the ones I'd been made aware of. Just know that I did not, in any form or way, intend to impede upon your enjoyment of the site. And I do apologize if I did. You can restate them if you wish. I can't promise I'll admit to fault in all of them. But I'd more than reasonably admit to my fault in a fair share. If that's fine, then go ahead. I don't want to argue. I want to compromise. I don't want people to sit there, unrelentingly tell me I'm wrong, and expect me to just... adjust. And if that isn't what you're trying to do, then thank you for that. All I want is to foster understanding between myself and anyone who'd listen. If I was wrong and I know it, I'll admit it. If I don't think I was, we can talk about it and see from what root the problem stems so we can work it out. Perhaps it's something I'm not seeing. Perhaps it's something you aren't hearing. I don't know. But I'd like to think if I'm not allowed back there (and I couldn't care less if I am. I probably wouldn't return if I was), then I can at least douse the fires on whatever bridges are current set ablaze.

So here we are. One. Final Time.

I apologize.
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PostSubject: Re: So here we are.   So here we are. Icon_minitimeTue Sep 15, 2015 11:38 pm

So can we either A) Let me on for, like, 2 hours so I can copy all my crap over here (at least all of it that I need) or B) let me make a list and have someone else do it? Since I was given all of 10 FREAKIN' MINUTES between her deciding she was gonna boot me and actually booting me. I assume because she was so enraged that she wasn't able to think clearly. I don't assume she wants my crap around the site to remind her of my existence.
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